My family, My Idol

Some of us have had to do the same. Please read, very encouraging:

"God created us to worship. It’s how we’re made. So when we’re not properly worshiping Him, our hearts are quickly drawn to a cheap replacement. For me, that has been my family. Which is rather confusing since family in itself is a good thing. But it can easily take the form of idolatry when I choose family over Jesus. Let me explain.

As a single woman, I have held my family above Christ by refusing to speak truth at the risk of disrupting my family’s so-called peace or potentially losing relationship with them altogether. I knew God was calling me to bring into the light past family sin that had never been discussed since it occurred 27 years ago. I could see how it could be used to show them God’s grace by coming to them in truth and forgiveness. And although there was great possibility to see lives transformed, I sinned against God by instead choosing my family and my own comfort because the risk was too high."
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1 Corinthians 11- 5th post

The Post that started this all can be found here: Head coverings study

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It is dishonoring to the man when the woman is not covered, beacause of Vs. 9-10.
"9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
10 For this cause ought the woman to have power (a sign of authority) on her head because of the angels." (KJV)

The reason that a woman should be covered, is because it is a sign that she is under authority of the man. If she is not covered, she is saying that she is not under authority of the man. This is true, regardless of the presence of a man. Please look at the chapter carefully. The point is not so much men and women together in spiritual exercise. That may or may not be the case. The point is men and womens spiritual position before God. Prayer, as mentioned in Vs. 5 may occur without, the presence of a man. However, she still should have power (a veil showing that she is under authority) on her head because of the angels, and beacause, as in Vs. 9, she was made for the man. The covering is there show God's order. The womans head is what needs to be covered, in Vs. 5,6,10. The covering then, is not to cover the womans hair, but her head.

Please see, that Pauls main concern is that the womans head be covered. He does not mention in this chapter that a womans hair needs to be covered. If a woman wears a piece of cloth to cover her hair, then what is covering her head? Paul does not mention a covering as having two purposes. It says in verse 5 that a woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered, dishonors her head.

You are covering your hair not your head. This presents a big problem, as you are according to Vs. 5 dishonoring your head.

If her hair is not covering her, Paul is saying, she dishonors her head, and that is just as shameful, as if she is shaved. So if a womans hair isn't covering her, she should be shaved, but if it is a shame for a woman to be shaved, let her be covered. Paul here seems to be putting the woman in a corner, where her only option is to have long hair. I would like to review the definitions of the "cover" words (uncovered, covering, covered, cover); With word in verse 15 the only exeption, the greek word behind them is (or is a version of):

2619 katakalupto kat-ak-al-oop'-to

from 2596 and 2572;

AV-cover 3; 3
Meaning:
1) to cover up
2) to veil or cover one's self`

The word for covering in verse 15 is:

4018 peribolaion per-ib-ol'-ah-yon

from a presumed derivative of 4016; ; n n

AV-covering 1, vesture 1; 2

1) a covering thrown around, a wrapper
1a) a mantle
1b) a veil

They both mean veil, but "peribolaion", used only in Vs. 15, is simply a more descriptive term, which he uses to give physical reference to what he meant earlier in the chapter in his use of the "cover" words.

Please note, that it never says in the entire chapter that the woman needs to be covered, so that the man's glory will not be shown before God. The reason that a woman needs to be covered is not, so that the man's glory will be concealed. The reason she should be covered is to witness to the angels, that she was created for, and under the authority of the man. See Vs. 9+10.

Authority is the whole point of this passage, the womans covering is supposed to show that she is under the authority of the man.


[The phrase, "Because of the angels" in Vs. 10, may be a refrence to the fall. When, both the woman, and the angel, Lucifer were both acting outside of the authority over them. Lucifer, rejecting God's supremacy over him, the woman doing the same with the man, rejecting his authority over her. Thus the covering is a testimony to angels, that as she is under the man's authority, so should they be under God's authority.

Isaiah 44:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Genesis 3:17 ¶ And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

In Ezekiel 28:13-17

"Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy
covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the
jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the
workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day
that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I
have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked
up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.Thou wast perfect in thy ways
from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.By the
multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with
violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of
the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the
midst of the stones of fire.
Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy
wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will
lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee."]

1 Corinthians 11

The origional post that started this discussion can be found here: head coverings study

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Me and Teresa spent quite a few hours today, restudying 1 Corinthians 11. We wrote what we found. May it be a blessing.

*ESV quoted unless otherwise noted. Strongs' numbers included with greek definitions*

"The chapter 1 Corinthians 11, is not necassarily talking about men and women spiritually exercising together. It only mentions the womans position in the lord, and how it relates to men and their position in the Lord. Obviously, the definition of prophesying: "1Co 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. (KJV)" means that there must be at least two people present. But this does not have to be a time when men and women are formally coming before the Lord (church). Regardless of whether men and women are seperated, together or formally coming before god, is is shameful for a woman to pray (she may pray alone) or prophesy with her head uncovered, and vice-versa with the man.

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

If a woman is praying or prophesying (edifying, exhorting, and comforting [1 Cor 14:3]) at any time, she should be covered. If Teresa (a sister here) is in a taxi by herself, and she starts praying, she should be covered. If she starts comforting, edifying or exhorting another christian, at any time, she should be covered.

What is the reason for being covered or uncovered, according to this chapter? For the man the reason is: Vs. 7 For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man. (ESV)

So, the man should be uncovered, because he is the image and glory of god.
Why should the woman be covered? See Vs. 8 to 10:

8 For man was not made from woman, but woman from man.
9 Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.
10 That is why a wife* ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. (ESV)
*[greek: 1135 gune goo-nay', meaning: 1) a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow]

The words "symbol of authority" is the greek word: "1849 exousia ex-oo-see'-ah".
Meaning: 4d) a sign of the husband's authority over his wife 4d1) the veil with which propriety required a women to cover herself.

The woman should be covered (have a symbol of [the mans] authority [over her] on her head), beacause she was created for the man.

The next two verses 11 and 12, clarify any misunderstanding or chance of abuse: "11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman; 12 for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God. (ESV)". So, the reason for the covering is to show that she was made for the man, and thus under his authority. Thus the reason that a woman needs to be covered is not to conceal her glory, but instead, to show that she is made for and under the authority of the man. It never says in the chapter that the womans hair or glory needs to be covered. Rather the covering is to cover her head. See the verses below and Vs. 5 and 6.

What is the covering?

13 Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a wife* to pray to God with her head uncovered?
14 Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him,
15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a covering. (ESV)
*[greek: 1135 gune goo-nay', meaning: 1) a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow]


Verse 15 gives a description of the covering. (In this chapter, the covering is never described as a piece of material.) It says first of all "long hair". Second of all, the word covering in this verse is a different word in the greek that all the other "cover(ings)' in this chapter. Beside "covered" in verse 4, all the "cover" words are: 2619 katakalupto kat-ak-al-oop'-to, in the greek. This word means: 1) to cover up 2) to veil or cover one's self. However in verse 15, the word "covering" is: 4018 peribolaion per-ib-ol'-ah-yon, in the greek. This word meaning: 1) a covering thrown around, a wrapper 1a) a mantle 1b) a veil. Paul seems to use verse 15 to describe his use of covering in the previous verses so as to give example of what it looks like physically. So a woman's hair should be able to be thrown around her or wrap her.

Literally Vs. 15 says: "but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a [covering thrown around, a wrapper, a mantle, or veil.]"

All the other verses say that a woman or her head should be covered, and none of them say that her hair needs to be covered. Paul in verse 15 tells what the covering is: "her hair is given to her for a covering"

However Vs. 16 adds: "If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God. (ESV)". So dont fight about this issue (maybe hair length, or the whole issue of head covering)."

Teresa and Caleb

Brethren pray for us. Pray for Souren, Bagrat, Narek, and Arsen (his salvation) also.


Our Lord come, and may he find faith on the earth!

head coverings study

Me and Teresa spent several hours yesterdAY studying 1 Corinthians 11.

We were looking at head coverings, and came to some different conclusions.

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*Verses are from 1 Cor 11 unless said otherwise*

*Please not that the word woman in KJV is sometimes translated wife in the ESV (used below)*

I Corinthians 11:4 + 5
4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, 5 but every wife (KJV: woman) who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven.

Please note that this chapter never mentions the bodily presence of men or women. It simply states that when a woman prays or prophecys (Prophecy according to 1 Corinthians 14:3 is, "edification, exhortation, and comfort") with her head uncovered, she dishonors her head. Thus, when a woman, prays, edifies, exhorts, or comforts, she should have her head covered. If she doesn’t, or the man does (have their heads covered), while praying or prophesying, they dishonor their head. Verses 8-12 describe the position of men and women. These verses, seem to be an interjection explaining why he even mentions coverings:

"8 For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. 9 Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10 That is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. 11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman; 12 for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God."

Please note also that the context of this passage, is NOT church.


What is the covering?!! It says: "For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. (be shaved KJV)" 1 Cor 11:6, "But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head." Verse 10: "for this cause ought the woman to have power (a sign of the husbands authority over his wife, or veil {Strong’s ref:1849}) on her head because of the angels". Verse 15 of this chapter describes the covering: "But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.". Verses 8-12 describe the position of men and women. These verses, seem to be an interjection explaining why he even mentions coverings, and to remind men that they are not better than the women:

"8 For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. 9 Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10 That is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. 11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman; 12 for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God."

Verse 13 and 14 answer, and directly correlate to vs. 6 and 7.

Vs 6: 6 For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head.

Vs 13: 13 Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a wife to pray to God with her head uncovered?

Vs 7: 7 For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man.

Vs 14: 14 Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him,


Vs 4: 4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head,


15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a covering.

I guess, I have been studying this and I wonder why I even consider that the covering is something other than a woman’s long hair. It never says in the whole chapter that a woman’s hair should be covered. It says that her head should be covered. I see it now as the woman’s long hair as her covering. How long? Well that is what I see vs. 6 as talking about (in a complicated way). If a woman’s hair doesn’t cover her, she should be shaved. But it’s a shame for a woman to be shaved vs. 13 implies: " Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a wife to pray to God with her head uncovered?" So, a woman’s hair should cover her (the word covering in vs. 15 means, "1) a covering thrown around, a wrapper 1a) a mantle 1b) a veil"). Paul calms any dispute about this in vs. 16: "But if any man seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God."

Caleb

iniquities

Pray that the Lord would be showing us and me more of our sin. i need wisdom on what is right and what the lord requiresof me. Which i know is to do justly love mercy and walk humbly with my god. Me (Caleb) and Teresa had a bit of a hash out today on whether a woman can prophesy in the church. Very interesting. It seems that in a church, a woman does not need to cover her head, as she is not prophesying. But if she is praying, even in silence does she need her head covered? We are going to study. Pray that she would find a place to li8ve.